Hugo Chavez suppresses freedom in Venezuela, opens door to Hezbollah terrorists

This is nonsense to the nth degree. Before believing such one has to take the time to research a great deal more about the movement in Venezuela. It's possible perhaps that Chavez has gone a bit overboard, absolute power corrupts absolutely, but any popular movement that seems to favor the poor is going to get short shrift from the upper classes in Latin America.

You must do your research on the other side before posting someones blog with a Nazi sticker no less, I've written several articles on Venezuela and don't have time to refute these sensationalist you tubers, but consider that Venezuela and Chavez are doing something for the poor, are doing something about using their resources in a nationalistic way, just ask Argentina as Chavez bailed them out of the blood sucking IMF.

Read up, and take your time before deciding on whether you believe whose fooling who, this isn't You tube this is Newsvine, and we're smarter here.

Forest

While I agree that research should be done to some degree before postig things on this site, I must say I disagree with your overall position here. Chavez may have motivations to help the poor, but in so attempting he has has been effectively dismantling the economic engine of his country.

Case and point : He has been attempting to give thriving farms to poor urbanites trained by the state in traditional farming techniques rather than modern farming. Farms that were productive and efficiently producing food for the populace are now slowly going to ruin becasue they have been given to people that do not know how to use the land effectively. While free markets may not always allow for a satisfying equitable distribution of wealth, it at least forces finite resources to be used in a fasion that is the best for society as a whole. If Chavez truly cared about the poor he would allow the markets to function with less interference and put his efforts into creating economic incentives and training programs for those that do not fit well within the system.

Horse manure....most of the land that you describe as fully functioning are nothing of the sort. Mostly Chavez has been trying to take the land away from the aristocratic landowners because they do exactly the opposite. The current landowners let their land lie fallow and have no interest in developing their land, but rather they want to sell their land to multinational corporations and move to Florida where they can live the good life.

I have empirical experience in Venezuela and have seen the exact description of exactly what I'm describing. Venezuelans that currently own the land and do nothing with it are the only lands targeted for redistribution because in their administrations opinion they are underutilized and pay no taxes, why not give them over to small farmers who will at least use the land and further pay taxes that will allow the government to put in clinics, and roads and infrastructure.

If you don't have to do the research than how can you know what your talking about, watching TV isn't a substitute for real research, and listening to corporate America pontificate about the governmental structure in Venezuela is the whining of an American and western value system that just wants the natural resources available to them. Look at Columbia where outside corporations own 99% of the natural resources, the administration has no problem with a country that will sell away its natural resources, leaving the indigenous people with nothing and no future.

Think again,

Forest

Well, while I believe that you have firsthand experience that results I have read about in venezuela would point to the situation being otherwise. Who said anything about television? I rarely watch the televised news and rather read reputable newspapers. If the redistribution is occuring only against the aristocrats as you say, then why is their food shortages currently in Venezuela to a larger degree than there were previously? This does not jive with your stance. Additionally, even if it is aristocrats that are holding out to sell to multinational coorporations, these corporations can undoubtedly put the land to good overall use while employing locals and providing jobs. A well run business operating on the land will still be a better position for the general populace than one run by inexperienced untrained workers.

I guess only time will tell, but I would hazzard a guess that if venezualan politics and economic policy continue in the same direction it has been, its citizens are in for a rough ride.

If the redistribution is occuring only against the aristocrats as you say, then why is their food shortages currently in Venezuela to a larger degree than there were previously?

Exactly for the reasons I've stated, land sitting and doing nothing instead of being farmed, it's one of Chavez's mainstays in his politics, so not only does it "jive" so your speak, but it makes perfect sense.

As to your assertion that multinationals want to come in and put the land to good use is just naive and misunderstood. If you had read my article you would know that most multinationals have no interest in putting the land to good use, but rather would far prefer to strip mine and get out. Needless to say this does not produce sustainable jobs and rather than have the profits removed from Venezuela the big issue for a multinational is how do they get the money OUT of Venezuela.

Therefore nothing of what you hazard would happen, but rather the resources are leached away to give corporations large profits and drain the Venezuela resources down to zero.

Forest

whether or not the resources may be "leached away" it is clear that any policy that puts the general population in a worse postition than it was in before that policy was enacted is careless in the extreme.

Even in a strip mining operation nothing is given to companies for free, what is to stop free market collective bargaining to improve the monies flowing in to the venezuelan economy in exchange for their resources? It would seem that even an unfair price and inflow of money would be better than none at all.

That's a ridiculous argument, so you believe that they should just give away their countries resources for now real return just so some of their population could work for subsistence wages for a while, until the resources are gone and environmental damage has been sustained at which point they have a bigger problem on their hands than they started with.

Your backing yourself into an unsustainable argument when you argue for such ridiculous terms for the indigenous population. Why not just militarily overthrow the government and just take what you want?

Forest

No. thats not what I'm saying at all. What I'm pointing out is that these coorporations must be paying somebody for these resources, even if it is the aritstocrats as you say, this is money flowing into the economy of venezuela. Naturally the owners of this land should bargain as much as possible for a glabally competitive rate. If environmental plundering is a concern, all that is needed is to overhaul that part of the law, rather than reclaiming all resources for government use. Money flowing in does not stagnate, even if it is saved it is recirculated through the banking and investment system. If an aristocrat doesn't even spend his money, but sticks it in his savings account, that bank now has more money to lend to business start ups and any other sort of lending useful to all people. On the other hand if the land sits there unused, while the government is undermining ivestor confidence through interfereing in markets, money flows out of venezuela, incluidng the money of locals who are afraid of their hard aquired capital being "redistributed" by the state. This is good for no one.

I don't see how anyone can believe that a complete socialist state can create wealth for the common man when there are so many empirical examples that refute this idea.

Your not quite listening again, the aristocrats, once they are paid, and barely enough by our standards leave Venezuela and haul their asses over to the US to live the good life. Leaving nothing to be recirculated back into the Venezuelan economy. Again, a misperception on your part. I would suggest more reading, then some more reading, and then perhaps some time to just think rather than pigeon-holing yourself into an argument that's not winnable. Do you think Chavez is popular because he's trying to screw the poor, hardly without some basis in fact or he would have no support whatsoever.

In the long run as absolute power corrupts absolutely he may turn out to be a piss poor president, but as compared to our butt buddies in Columbia, all that drug war money going somewhere, I would submit to you that he is doing a better job than Columbia's president whose laws are exactly up our alley, hence the military funding to Columbia far beyond it's need to the tune of billions of dollars. We might need someone to fight a proxy war for us. Chavez at least is doing a better job of retaining Venezuela's natural resources for his people and country, whereas 99% of all of Columbia's assets and resources are owned by outside corporations. When those resources are gone the Colombian people will have nothing and no resources.

Under your argument, that's exactly what they deserve. Doesn't sound so pretty now eh?

Forest

this may be the case, but if his current actions put his country in a worsening state of affairs ( ie decreasing food supplies...) I would place a large amount of money on the fact that his populace would rather deplete the resources than slowly starve to death due to ridiculous economic policy eh? I don't suggest I have all the answers, I'm merely stating that its fairly obvious that his answer is not a viable one in the least. His popularity is waning now that the effects of his ill thought policies are starting to be seen clearly.

In any case, it is clear we will not agree on this at this point, and I must say you make some interesting points that I must look into further. It will be interesting to see how things play out.

That it will....

It's possible perhaps that Chavez has gone a bit overboard

A bit overboard? Forest, Chavez jumped the shark years ago. Wake up and smell the tyranny and danger, amigo.

Your knowledge of this comes from where?

Perhaps it's the western press who actually aren't allowed to own newspapers or television companies in Venezuela allowing their economy to develop itself instead of being run by western corporations.

Amigo??? funny I suppose

Forest

increasingly close ties with terrorists. Statement...check, facts...um well supposition's good enough for us.

"but the problem is that Chávez is supporting Hezbollah in the Middle East and will most probably support their criminal work in Venezuela."

"Hugo Chávez is also a very dangerous man, with a big bag of money and a deep inferiority complex rooted in social and racial components. I think he is willing to do anything to leave an imprint in history, no matter what, how or when. "

Lets see..."will most probably" damn you conservative psychics are out in force. What am I thinking of?

and not only psychic but bona fide psychological genius's to boot, not just any normal inferiority complex, a 'deep' one. 'Rooted in social and racial components' I'm amazed! How can you be so sure it wasn't his mother or his dad or maybe some uncle that fiddled with him at a formative stage? I'm just asking as a non-gifted non-clairvoyant.
'social and racial components' correct me if I'm wrong but that would be politics yes?

Anyway, you guys seem to be doing pretty well on the objective, non-bias reality front and i realise I've now exposed myself to cerebral prodding that could go on for weeks as you get to the bottom of my insanity thus reinforcing your own collective, [ but consistantly diminishing,now 30% and dropping] rightwing reality that consists, and this is my opinion mind, of a mental illness that America is, in it's own polite way, finally recognising as a full blown psychosis combining transference, inferiority complex's, separation anxiety and a wide range of social disorders.

I'm just joking but what I find really funny, given your obvious shortcomings as mental titans, is that you are, with constant reassurance amongst yourselves, serious.